It has been pointed out to me, and not very nicely, that I was wrong about Microsoft suggesting that users install something other than Microsoft Security Essentials. Inferred in most of the comments I’ve received, that I have somehow made a terrible error – or was just plain prevaricating by saying that Microsoft doesn’t even recommend MSE anymore to enhance sales of Emsisoft.
You can believe what you want to believe. And it’s your computer – you can protect it with whatever you like. But the truth is the truth and it’s not always pleasant. Here’s a truth: There are many Microsoft fans on the Web running tech sites, writing newsletters, and publishing blogs who support Microsoft in order to keep obtaining free software from Microsoft and to get new versions of Windows for testing well ahead of everyone else. These fans will go to any length to cover for Microsoft regardless of the cost to their readers. Free Microsoft software and free test versions of Windows go a long way in assuring good press.
This all started when Holly Stewart, the head of Microsoft’s Malware Protection Division made the following statements to Dennis Technology which were subsequently published on the PC Pro web site.
Holly Stewart, senior program manager of the Microsoft Malware Protection Center, told Dennis Technology Labs that Microsoft made a decision to switch to what it calls a “baseline strategy”.
“We had an epiphany a few years ago, back in 2011, where we realised we had a greater calling and that was to protect all Microsoft customers,” she said. “But you can’t do that with a monoculture and you can’t do that with a malware-catching ecosystem that is not robust and diverse.”
Rather than focus on making its own antivirus the best in the business, Stewart said Microsoft was “doing everything we can to protect against real threats” and passing data on those threats to antivirus makers, so multiple parties can target the problems.
“It’s not as efficient to have one kind of weapon,” she said. “Like anything you must have that diversity. It’s a weakness to just have one.”Previously, Microsoft would spend resources trying to improve Security Essentials’ performance in tests. “We used to have part of our team directed towards predicting test results and figuring out what might be in someone’s test. There’s always a cost to that,” she said. “If they are doing that work they are not looking at those threats that are affecting our customers. We always felt that was wrong. There’s something not right about that – we’re not doing the best job for our customers.” (See http://goo.gl/D7hGzR to read the rest of this article.)
It’s pretty clear what Holly Stewart was saying about MSE (Windows Defender in Windows 8 and 8.1); it was so damaging it caused Microsoft to go into political damage control mode two weeks later. Microsoft issued the following statement, not in rebuttal of what Holly Stewart said, but in an attempt to control the damage her statement had caused:
“We are committed to protecting our customers, and our Microsoft antimalware solutions provide strong, comprehensive defense against malicious code and attacks. We believe in these products and are proud of the protection capabilities we provide to well over 150 million computers worldwide.”
Microsoft’s statement does not rebut what Holly Stewart said nor does it explain why MSE (Windows Defender on Windows 8 and 8.1) consistently finishes at or near the bottom in virtually ever anti-virus testing done by virtually every independent testing laboratory.
This article, from Information Week, published on August 21, 2013, illustrates the point I’m making – regardless of how Microsoft tries to walk back the statement made by one of it’s Malware Protection Division managers, facts remain facts:
Microsoft Windows Defender Stumbles In Malware Tests
August 21, 2013Microsoft Windows can be secured against new malware threats — provided users don’t rely on the free antivirus software that’s included with the operating system.
That’s one of the takeaways from an endpoint security study released this week by independent German lab AV-Test.
The researchers evaluated 28 antivirus products against three criteria: protection, repair and usability. Products could earn up to six points in each category for a possible total of 18 points. After tallying the results, AV-Test reported that “Bitdefender, Kaspersky Lab and Symantec lead the field while the protection packages from Avast, F-Secure and GData share fourth place.”
Still, all of the products earned top scores of 15.2 points or more — which stood in sharp contrast to the performance of Microsoft’s free offerings. “The test results of these [six] products alone are all nearly five points higher than the overall result obtained by Microsoft’s Windows Defender or Security Essentials when used together with the Windows Firewall,” reported AV-Test. “This proves that the use of external security solutions can lead to a massive improvement when it comes to system protection.” (Read the entire article at http://goo.gl/XOyGvb )
Note that Emsisoft uses BitDefender’s scan engine. Also note Emsisoft not included in this particular study done by AV-Test.
Above, the July-August 2013 AV-Test (a German Independent testing lab), shows MSE (and Windows Defender in Windows 8 and 8.1) dead last (baseline). You can see the complete ratings chart at AV-Test here.
It depends on how badly you want to believe Microsoft whether you keep using MSE/Windows Defender to protect your computer. You’ll find many Microsoft fans — running tech sites, blogs and writing newsletters — who will defend Microsoft, even when there is a ponderous amount of evidence that Microsoft has not taken very good care of MSE/Windows Defender = and has let it decline to a point where I would not use it to protect my computer, nor would I recommend that my family members use it, nor would I recommend it to my friends.
Microsoft, not Cloudeight, has let you down.
I stand by the statements I have made about MSE/Windows Defender. Holly Stewart’s statement is supported by evidence. Microsoft’s attempts to walk those statements back have no basis in fact and are not born out by empirical data. Microsoft’s walk-back appears to be just another public relations cover-up by Microsoft.
At this point in time, I would never recommend MSE/Defender to my family or friends, and I would never use it on my own computers.
So why in the world would I recommend it to you?
Here is how I responded. Never will we recommend something we know does not work! Hope this helps everyone understand better:
For years we recommended MSE but we no longer recomend it. We base this mainly on the fact we started seeing many computers running MSE/Defender showing up with trojans and viruses the past few weeks; something we had not seen the past couple of years since we started our Direct Care Service.
Also, Microsoft has completely dropped down so far it is no longer listed as passing performance testing by the most popular independent AV testing company, AV-Compartives: http://www.av-test.org/no_cache/en/tests/test-reports/?tx_avtestreports_pi1%5Breport_no%5D=133162
http://chart.av-comparatives.org/awards_by_vendor.php?venID=11
Other independent tests showing very low ratings or showing it does not meet industry averages:
http://www.av-test.org/no_cache/en/tests/test-reports/?tx_avtestreports_pi1%5Breport_no%5D=133162
Those two are the largest and most reliable as far as AV testing but you can do searches and find others (make sure it is independent av testing, not av testing that lists according to commission/affiliation
We no longer recommend MSE or Defender. We have written several articles the past few weeks on our findings.
Darcy, Cloudeight
—– Original Message —–
Your Question, Comment or Suggestion Hi TC and EB ,
Reference your recent articles slamming Microsoft Security Essentials you might like
to comment on the attached from Leo Notenboom who ,I am sure you know ,is
well respected in the computer industry and write’s a weekly newsletter which I and
am sure lots of your readers subscribe to .
ttp://askleo.com/do-i-need-to-stop-using-microsoft-security-essentials/?awt_l=BBgO_&awt_m=IhEkJ1wtdJdfbL
Just a note in case the gentleman that wrote the note to me is reading.. your note is not the one being complained about 🙂 You asked us nicely and have been a long time member.. just don’t want you to feel you did anything wrong by asking.
Darcy
I am so glad that you have come back with your rebuttal on this issue and I’ll stand by you and what you recommend any time. I do subscribe to a couple of other computer newsletters and one of them did defend Microsoft and I couldn’t understand why. Thanks for watching out for us and our computers.
Once again, a reply well supported by defendable(no,this is not a misspell) data ! You have far more supporters than ‘nay-sayers’ !! Keep up the good work !!! Dave.
Ah, this explains why my comment and your blog & Forum message disappeared… I thought maybe I had said something wrong! I agree with you on this issue, I had an awful job removing MSE, and when I have a problem removing a program as I did, it tells me there is something amiss….I finally was able to remove it & install Emisoft… after doing a scan with it, then also one with Superantispyware, and a final one with Malware, removed a lot of stuff that had been sitting there….everything is working smoothly now….
Keep up the good work, there are some who do appreciate what you are doing…..
Kudos to you for looking out for us! I took MSE off my computer when you first told us about its decline to less than optimal, and with Emsisoft installed my computer is doing great! In fact, Emsisoft has replaced several other programs I was using as well for malware and spyware protection.
I agree people will believe what they want to, although it may be to their (computer’s) detriment. The old saying ‘You can lead a horse to water…’ is so true! I’m sure I speak for the large majority of your audience when I say that you have never made comments or recommendations about a program or software being great, not the best, or even a downright threat, without being proved correct. You are almost always ‘ahead of the game’ when it comes to warning us about changes we should make in our PC protection. Your longtime followers have learned to listen to you, as you’ve never led us astray in a decade! We appreciate Cloudeight, and can’t imagine where we’d be without you!
I got rid MSE when you told us how you were no longer recommending it. Installed Emisoft and have no problems
I appreciate y’all looking out for all of us especially this 73year old woman. Thank.you for all you do for us.
MSE suggested to me that I should obtain another security program, so I did and purchased Emsisoft for not one but four computers just last weekend.
I thought that I should uninstall MSE before installing the new program and after much effort I learned that is really not possible instead one has to just switch it off.
Emsisoft was among several software programs suggested by Microsoft as a replacement. So how could any of this be the fault of TC or Darcy.
Give your head a shake!
Its so good to know that we have someone reliable looking out for us,and I know where I put my trust!!! For people like myself who only have a limited knowledge of the finer workings, dependable people like yourselves are just wonderful to have to guide us, so keep up the good work.
MSE has never worth a “hoot”, as far as I’m concerned. I tried it once a few years ago, blew out my operating system (win-7 pro), had to reload system, no fun. Called MS, they said they knew there were problems with it. I was a computer tech for 40 years (retired now), serviced the original IBM pc, before pcs, mainframes. Some things you just don’t mess with.
I see that Avast Free also scores well 5.5 out of 6 on Protection and a fairly good score on the two other criteria.
I hope we can all move on to another topic now as this fight over who said what and who is right about what has been worn a little thin by now. Can’t we all just move on, and like we used to, learn something new and exciting about our computers.
Avast, however, is a very poor antimalware. Also Avast has a lot of useless setting (Scan email, anti-phishing, etc.). Plus we think it’s too aggressive in trying to sell users or goad them into upgrading to its professional (paid) version. Additionally, Avast has gotten a really bad case of Nortonitis. We are not fans of Avast or its marketing methods.
I did a Google search on how to remove MSE and found a link on the bleeping computer web site for a tool that will remove MSE. Does anyone know if this is will work? Here is the link:
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/microsoft-security-essentials-removal-tool/
I had MSE and then when I could, I purchased Emisoft. It picked up numerous things that MSE had been missing including a trojan and a couple of other things that were criticial to my system. Say what you will, Microsoft is failing on all fronts!
I’ve read all the items you folks have posted and am going to stick with what Thundercloud suggests and recommends. He is the one I trust. I and a lot of others haven’t been let down yet.
Arnie
I’d like to know why Emsisoft is not even on the AV test results shown above. If it’s one of the very best, why wouldn’t it be listed?